CrossFit NYC: The Black Box

I have stopped using the word "diet" and use a Cert phrase: Meal Plan.

I'm a Zone disciple.

I AM SERIOUSLY HAVING CARB/sugar WITHDRAWAL. THIS IS AWFUL. i would kill someone for a brownie right now. too bad i don't have those gang contacts anymore. diet, meal plan, fuel, block. its all semantics for "this sucks."

does it take about week for the body to adjust?

Just finished my final Thesis presentation/defense! Woo Hooo!!!

Go to sleep, Michelle. Sleep is good. It's harder to crave sugar when you're asleep.

Thanks for this post Keith. And Allison thanks for the break down earlier. Helps a lot. I feel you Michelle, the hardest part is finding ways to eat when you don't plan your meals ahead of time. So what would be a good list of stuff we can grab if we don't plan ahead?

I ain't white, so I guess it's time for me to leave the Black Box since I'm not right! Ah well...I just had some paleo pumpkin pie in preparation for tomorrows CFT; get some!

Dont feel alone Michelle... I was in a foul mood tonight before working out at the Box. Thank god everyone was there to get me in a good mood because I was walking around pissed off all day.

Michelle, eat something. Obviously something healthy. I've never done the zone but I have done South Beach and the effects are similar. Your body gets used to an insulin roller coaster from all the sugar in a "normal" diet so you crave sweets for the first........ week or so. The best way to avoid it is to eat something light and healthy whenever you're having that craving. That should satisfy you and checking the extent to which you crave snacks can give you a good indication of how balanced your insulin levels have become.

Michelle: Eat something. One extra block won't screw you. Not eating when you're really hungry can turn you off from the Zone.

I was just really hungry so I had an 11th block. I worked hard today so I'm not worried. I wouldn't have been able to sleep.

Better to eat an extra block than get cranky and grab some cake or a cookie.

Ha. Crap. Like I said- eat something

still keepin up with it in rome. a lot of tree branch pull-ups and, uncharacteristically, a lot of running. guess its the scenery. nyc dec 9th to the 19th.

interesting to hear the diet discussion while in pasta-stan. the easiest food to get your hands on here is a sandwich and an espresso at the "snack bar".. fortunately, the meat and vegetables are both and abundant and tasty. the trick here - moderation.

and not that i'm one to talk about diets, but how about something simple like: don't eat junk food. don't eat when you're not hungry. eat more vegetables.

you'll have to wrestle me away from the ale though... and if you do, i'll workout until i'm strong enough to wrestle my way back to it.

Chad glad to hear your enjoying. It"ll be nice to see u in NY!
Jack Bauer- canned wild salmon,tuna, sardines or a hard boiled egg w a fruit and a few nuts are good as quick meals on the go/or when "unprepared"
Michelle-it does get easier. Reread CFJ #21, even Nicole (CF legend) was climbing the walls initially!! It just means you are human!

The ambiguousness of the term "eat healthy." Is the cause of all the world's problems. Not really. But close. What we are trying to do is specifically define what "eating healthy" is. I meet big, fat, out of shape people everyday that tell me how healthy they eat. Are they crazy? Blind? Delusional? No. Probably just suffering from what we all suffer from...ambiguity and self-interest.

No offense to Michelle, but she is a lawyer and if you give her an ambiguous command like "eat healthy!" She will interpret that in the way most favorable to her (we all do). Therefore we justify whatever cravings we have as "healthy."

To Chad's point about "don't eat this and eat more that" the same problem arises. We all promise ourselves we'll eat more good stuff and less bad stuff but, generally we just eat more of the same stuff.

I'm not trying to tell anybody they are good or bad because of what they eat or do not eat. I am simply saying that if we want to address our fuel consumption in an intelligent manner befitting grownups, then we have to define what we are talking about.

The analogy that I like is that of the scientist. Imagine you are a scientist and you are trying to grow a culture in a lab. If you just dump food into the petri dish and pray for the best, you're not much of a scientist. You would figure out what the enzyme needs to eat and how much of it and set up a feeding schedule and every day you would put the exact amount of fuel into that petri dish to make the enzyme grow. If you were not getting the results you wanted you could easily see what you had done and change one variable at a time until you got the desired effect. It seems obvious when you are caring for another creature and responsible for its growth and wellbeing, but less obvious when shoveling Milanos down our gullet while watching TV.

BTW - Chad have fun in Pasta-stan. Looking forward to your return.

Keith if I were a better lawyer I would have interpreted the God diet as having included brownies!

In fact I recall somehwere from my studies in Hebrew school as a child some commentary in Genesis about the creation story that ACTUALLY before Eve gave Adam that apple to eat she gave him a BROWNIE and unfortunatley he ate the ENTIRE thing, so all that was left to eat was an apple. hence the birth of the God diet.

God had only created one brownie figuring for two people it was enough-they could share the dessert right? But no-adam was sooo greedly the guy had to eat the whole thing. So basically they were cast out of the garden of eden not because adam took a "BITE" out of the apple (note "bite"-did not even want to eat the whole apple!!!) but because he polished off the ENTIRE brownie.
Now that I have shared the special rabbinic interpretation with you all, go right ahead and add brownie to the God diet. Sure adam lost a rib-but he and eve loked pretty fit in those leave loin cloth getups right?

Thus brings up the other taboo topic: religion. It has often been said that getting people to change their diet is as hard as getting them to change their religion and/or sexual orientation.

Talk about inspirational:
http://rosstraining.com/blog/?p=201

http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/atlarge/2007/12/03/071203crat_atlarge_buford?currentPage=all

Michelle, as a Catholic, that version of your story is so much cooler than ours! I'm converting to the brownie creation story! Mazal Tov!

It would have been interesting if Adam had decided to eat the snake in retaliation for tricking him. How many blocks is snake meat worth? Keith? Robzilla? Anyone?

Sarena thanks for the snack ideas.

Jack Bauer--Maybe PM JAy Cohen over on the main CF boards. He eats all these weird meats. If you ever need tips on food, you can always ask me.

As if meal plan banter isn't enough, we're now throwin' around religion!?!?!? Shoot. Why not thrown in politics and sports to complete this thread of things we all agree on?

Back in foodland..... I am a fan of isopure ion exchange whey protein.

Jack - according to this Australian Nutritional Site (http://www.food.com.au/food.php?amount=3&unit=-2&=Rescale&category_id=50788&brand_id=1&food_id=10057)
snake is:

136 Calories/1.7g Fat/0 G Protein/O Grams of Carbs per 3 oz of Snake

So, it is one delicious Fat block.

hey nyc-ers....

so i keep up with your board sporadically - especially since you all are so active on it! hope you dont mind me chiming in... perhaps tyler et al. will help back me up on this.

i found strict zone WAY too difficult. im NOT encouraging you NOT to do it - but you may find it's too many carbs, too often... which keep you craving sugars. ive had WAY more success cutting the carb blks by half, and pretty much unlimited fat (nuts, coconut milk, oils, etc). performance has not suffered in the least, body comp is better, and don't really crave sugars. if you want to keep measuring replace each carb blk with 3 blks fat (citing robb wolf, here).

gary taubes new book (good calories, bad calories) is excellent at explaining the VERY unique difference in insulin response among us (that is, zone ratios - esp carbs - as rx'd may not be optimal for everyone!)

So disappointed to be missing the CFT today...

Wow Xuan Mai a gold star for you! I didn't even think I would get an answer that quick so thank you! Guess we can all learn some important health lessons from the Good Book as well. Amen. I'll be adding snake to my zone diet in 2008.

Sports Dan def...I don't want to talk about the Knicks! But the Celtics with KG are kicking @$$!

squat 295, pr still 320lbs, jumped too fast today
Press 170, NEW PR by 5 lbs
Deadlift 400, NEW PR by 5lbs

Total 865, PR 875

I'm happy with today despite my poor squat performance

Here are a few pics from yesterday morning's class. Unfortunately, I came in as everyone was finishing up.

http://picasaweb.google.com/xuan.mai.ho/CrossfitNYC11272007

One second...

how can there be no protein in a snake? Don't they have muscles? How do they move? :)

To be honest, the idea of eating a pure fat snake doesn't appeal..

"To be honest, the idea of eating a pure fat snake doesn't appeal.."

[response censored in the interests of all that is right and decent in this world]

EC, et al.

The Zone may prove too demanding for compliance over a long timeline, but some people take to it readily (read: anal retentive). The point is that portion control is necessary. If for no other reason than to have a baseline for comparison. If you don't know what a "proper" portion is then you have no gauge as to how much you should be consuming. After a few weeks on a strictly weighed and measured diet, you can start to gauge whether you are getting too many or too few blocks.

EC can speak as to how her diet compares to the Zone only after having tried the Zone and learning her baselines. She has found after some trial and error that less carbs and more fat works. It is folly to think that you can arrive at the same place as EC without having experimented with weighing and measuring her food.

It is my experience that the only people that have real success on the Paleo Diet are those that have first tried weighing and measuring their food. They have a much better idea of portion size and tend to eyeball it better than those that go on pure hunger instincts.

Gene, congrats man! Hey, next time you see me, remind me to talk to you about something...

how many blocks is a zone bar?

I want one.

AllisonNYC

Stay away from the Zone bars! They are surprisingly horribly off of Zone proportions. 7g protein, 9g carb, 1.5g fat is 1 block of each. If you do a little arithmetic you can see what each of the flavors works out to...not good.

Xuan Mai, love the pics, especially this one:

http://picasaweb.google.com/xuan.mai.ho/CrossfitNYC11272007/photo#5137832294569174802

the blurriness conveys what it feels like when you're finishing a metcon workout like that one.

Hari, love that New Yorker link. in that vein, check out:

www.meatpaper.com

(from their description: "Meatpaper is an investigation into what we see as a growing cultural trend of meat consciousness. It explores a category of food that inspires intense emotions and reactions. Meatpaper is about meat as a provocative cultural symbol and phenomenon.")

Agreed about the zone bars, however, you can do like Rob Miller does and have an energy bar and then eat extra protein/carbs as needed to adjust the proportions.

A completely incorrect and arbitrary example might be a cliff builders bar plus half an apple and 3 almonds = 2 zone blocks.

Once you've found a particular bar you like, worked out how to incorporate it as part of a meal plan, it could be easy to remember when you're in need of a quick fix.

Also, its important to note that eating "real food" as opposed to bars is always preferable.

I know they're bad and not better than real food. but i wantED one. i was praying they were the right amount of blocks. oh well.

I'm better off without it. after waiting for a response I'm not hungry anymore anyway. interesting

I'm going for a cup of coffee.

thanks guys

http://www.peertrainer.com/DFcaloriecounterB.aspx?id=6980

If you look at this link, the mint choco bar has 7g fat, 21g carbs, 16g protein. So you get about 5 blocks fat, a little over 2 blocks protein, a little over 2 blocks carbs. As Sam suggests, you could add in appropriate Protein and carbs to get everything up to 5. Kind of defeats the convenience of a bar though.

I'm on 10 blocks. 5 blocks for a zone bar is silly. thanks again.

Yeah i'm trying to do 19 blocks a day so sometimes to simply get in that amount of food I have to resort to bars/shakes.

anyone who is looking for an easy dinner--i had this book once on using frozen dinners for the zone (no i do not cook. and i am absolutely fine with that. as are all the neighborhood take out places near me) but i remember that Weight Watchers Fiesta Chicken frozen dinner is easily adaptable to the zone if you add some slivered almonds and a little low fat cheese.

anyway good for "planning ahead" if you can't cook for shit. and they were not bad at all.

also maximus' blog has some good suggestions on protein bars and how to make them zone friendly. i recall him telling me detour bars were good (?) i ordered a case and tried one and found them vile. but hey-YOU might like them.

No problem Coach P. I should be in Friday night.

in that case, how about a practical way to start measuring the fuel? i'm sure its no real task once you're accustomed to it.. but to spend time defining, measuring, looking up amounts, etc seems a bit much, not to mention potentially sapping the enjoyment out of cooking..

also, perhaps an appropriate fuel shopping list for gassing up at the supermarket? i have a tendency to eat what's there, broccoli or not..

Chad,

protein is the easiest part, for chicken breast, turkey breast, ham, canned tuna and cheese is 1oz per zone block.

Generally for protein I always have one of these above items.

So I buy a decent amount of organic chicken breast at the supermarket and that will generally be enough for perhaps 2 or 3 five block meals. (ie: 15 ounces of chicken).

I keep some scales prominently on my work surface so its easy and quick to measure 5 ounces. And since I know its the same for chicken, tuna, cheese, ham etc, I never have to look up zone values.

For carbs:
I eat a lot of fruit and I have the common zone amounts memorized. For example one apple is 2 block, 1 orange is 2 blocks, 1 plum is 1 block, 1/3 of a large banana is 1 block, half a slice of bread is 1 block.

For fat:
Fat is easiest of all, I try and eat extra fat (2 extra blocks usually) so I just go a bit crazy with the olive oil and that's it. Basically, 1tsp is 3 blocks. (buy measuring spoons)

Also, I eat a lot of almonds and 3 almonds = 1 block, so thats pretty simple too.

I rarely have to look any zone amounts up now and I haven't done the zone for very long.

Realize i've contradicted myself quite nicely about the "easiest" part of the zone diet.

In conclusion, once you've read CFJ 21, memorized the block amounts which apply to the food you eat most regularly, it's all fairly simple.

I've found that Pure Protein bars are the closest to the Zone. 1 bar = ~3blocks of protein, 3blocks of fat and ~2blocks of carbs. This also depends on the flavor. I'm pretty sure double chocolate is the one that equals those amounts.

Just my $.02

I like roasted cashews for my fat blocks. 3 per block. Plus you get the sustained energy from sucking all the little bits out of you teeth between meals.

The Zone bars are 2 blocks... Not saying they are the best, but you don't use the 1.5 grams of fat since its not a low fat protein source.

The annoying thing about the zone bars is that apart from the mint flavor (in my opinion) they taste bloody terrible.

When i ate zone bars they caused me to crave more sweets. No longer an issue though since I eat predominantly paleo and they are def not paleo ok.
Personally if i need a bar I do a LARA bar. They never have more than 5 raw ingredients all of which I can identify. They are equal to 2 blks fats and carbs (as far as I remember)--then just add a sm can tuna/salmon and thats a nice snack.
Brett-I too love cashews but stopped eating them since they are technically a legume and therefore not Paleo!
But I try to be a stickler and also dont do any nightshades. My only dairy is an occas whey protein shake!

Sarena-i thought cashews are technically (botanically) seeds (i.e seeds that are not nuts such as like corn nuts) ?? I only know this from the fact that my twins are allergic to peanuts, chickpeas, sesame, tree nuts and peanuts (to name a few things) and have had to learn about every damn legume, nut, seed out there. Are they still not considered paleo friendly anyway? Good to know. i love them.

my kids are having pizza for dinner. i am hiding in my room.

Well, if you find the zone diet a bit complicated I can vouch for the "John Berardi diet". I lost about 20lbs using it while weighing/calorie counting my food.

The basic rules are pretty simple:

1. Eat every 2-3 hours, no matter what. You should eat between 5-8 meals per day.

2. Eat complete (containing all the essential amino acids), lean protein with each meal.

3. Eat fruits and/or vegetables with each food meal.

4. Ensure that your carbohydrate intake comes from fruits and vegetables. Exception: workout and post-workout drinks and meals.

5. Ensure that 25-35% of your energy intake comes from fat, with your fat intake split equally between saturates (e.g. animal fat), monounsaturates (e.g., olive oil), and polyunsaturates (e.g. flax oil, salmon oil).

6. Drink only non-calorie containing beverages, the best choices being water and green tea.

7. Eat mostly whole foods (except workout and post-workout drinks).

http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/7habits.html

I think eating or not eating cashews isn't going to make any sort of noticeable difference. Especially in the small quantities that the average person.

Prob right for most Sam, re cashews! I though am pretty tuned in and did notice a diff w digestive issues when I eliminated those cashews!

I would like to report that last nights serving of paleo pumpkin pie helped me to get a new PR on my squat today-295 (just!) but it did seem to make me write odd incomprehensible jokes that didn't work or make sense...sorry. Should've used the preview button.
But seriously, I've been Zoning off and on for a couple weeks now and I've felt the difference in my recent WODs, the least of which was today's PR on the squat, having done none in recent memory.

For those still on the fence!here are my blood test results--huge diff in a year!
10/06,10/07, Ideal
Cholesterol TTl
168 ,156,125-200
HDL
54, 63, >=40mg/dl
Chol/HDL Ratio
3.1,2.5, <=5.0
LDL
102,85, <=130mg/dl
Triglycerides
61,41, <=150 mg/dl

I think the numbers speak for themselves. What was the change, CF along with a radical diet shift. I had been vegan and then veg for a ttl of 14 years until Oct 06! Started zone and within a few month shifted to paleo with zone proportions! It felt (at that time)like Keith coerced me into changing my eating habits. My nutritionist warned me against "zoning" and later "paleo" eating and she is one of the most "respected" in the east coast. I probably should send her these numbers.

total
backsquat255, pushpress150, deadlift350
755

710 last time

Total
Squat - 175 pr (last time 155)
Press - 105 (same as last time - equal pr)
Deadlift - 215 pr (last time 205)

Total - 495 (last time 465)

Happy with that as had some time off with shoulder problems and also haven't done much strength stuff in recent memory.

Also managed my first tgu with a 24kg kettlebell! Which was a perk.

Court can u email me the recipe for the pie? seriously i will try about anything now that has the word pie in it. michellefoxman@yahoo.com
thanks!

no total for me today but SIX pullups. thx keith! then 15, 12, 9 of 95# back squats, double unders (started off as 3 rounds of 15 but keith saw i was passing out quickly so thankfully he modified it). those double unders were hell. then got a lesson on stringing them together without singles in between . got two in a row. thx again keith!

congrats all on their CFT PRs!

CF Total: 695; I'm going to take Maximus' blog advice on lifting and begin doing the 5x5 lifting routine after WODs since the heavy lifts are WAY behind my body weight progress.

After Total: 3 Rounds:
1500m Row (1:50, 1:51, 1:55 Splits)
50 Glute Ham Situps

I recommend the above workout as a Box 5k supplement; works both sides of the core.

Michelle,

Raw cashews are poisonous, and can cause rashes when harvested ( I think they are related to poison ivy). That may be the reason why they are not considered Paleo.

Just a though, I am by no means an expert.

http://www.crossfitseattle.com/Skill%20Levels%201-IV%20spreadsheet.pdf

Crossfit Goals for 2008. Be sure to scroll to the second page.

My favorite Sarena story is when she went to this doctor of hers. Sarena had been training with me for about 6 months and had completely changed her diet and dropped a ton of weight. This doctor who she had been seeing for years looked at Sarena and her blood work and saw results that she had never been able to get for one single patient of hers. There were normal blood glucose levels that heretofore Sarena was unable to achieve. The doctor asks Sarena what she was doing. Sarena told her that she had started eating meat, gave up grains and was exercising daily. The doctor responded, "I think you should be careful and add some whole grains to your diet."

WTF?!?! Doctors cannot even look at positive proof and believe the results. The do not even understand that they are driving their own patients to obesity.

BW 165

Squat 270
Strict Military press 150
Deadlift 315

Total 735

PR'd on the first 2 lifts but had no gas to increase my dead #'s. Did 315 on my first attempt and tried 335 on my last 2 and failed.:(
Must work on Deads. Going to do a 3x3 program to bring up my dead numbers.
Really wanted BW shoulder press but shoulders were very fatigued.

Without obese and unhealthy people to "treat" and shove new and often unnecessary prescription pills down the throat of, I believe these same doctors offering the horrid advice would be out of business....

Back Squat: 295, 315(f), 315(f) VERY bummed by this as 315 seemed fair on paper. First one had to burp on the way up which broke my flow. Second one I just couldn't get up the last bit. Thanks spotters!
Press: 115, 120, 121(PR) Added .5 to each side just to break through that 120 wall. Next time it's the 2.5s.
Deadlift: 315, 345, 375(PR)

Total: 791
Wondering if 900 is a reasonable 2008 goal.

Edit - Press of 121 is not a PR. In checking online archives, PR=125.

I never weight my food .I just eat planty of fruits , vegetables and nuts,drink planty of water and tea.oh and all kinds of fish.